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The Delicious Inside discussion started at MindCamp2.0 has continued at Alex’s Blog and Carlos’ Blog….

Good comments on the session. And good comments *during* the session as well.

I also wish we had more time for the discussion. It was my first time at an unconference, and while the lack of structure was great I sometimes found the conversations losing out to the clock. Ah well…

I entirely agree with your assertion that free keywording is not a new practice in metadata. A seasoned LIS hand pointed out to me recently that even back in the dark ages Dialog used to allow their indexers to apply non-standard terms in a special field when they were categorizing content. They would then collect and analyze the shared keyword pool on a regular basis as a kind of “user warrant” for changes to their massive controlled vocabulary.

I believe the core difference between the practice of keywording and the kind of tagging that happens in del.icio.us is the concept of pivoting. As a user I can give something a label that is meaningful to me *and* I can see that you are using that same label. I can then pivot my viewing context to see what other things you might have tagged and what other kinds of tags you are using. As I examine this information, I begin to develop an idea of our relative affinity. In environments like del.icio.us, there are three relationship networks superimposed on top of each other — the urls, the tags and the people. This can produce some powerful network phenomena.

As for incenting the users to tag, I am also in total agreement with you. Paying people has already been shown to produce horrible metadata; there’s no reason to think it would work any differently for tags.

The key is making it something users already do. That is why I really believe something like del.icio.us might work quite well within an enterprise. People understand bookmarking. Most people bookmark, and (in our field research) they have difficulty managing them. Users don’t have to understand the tripartite network affinity models or Lakoff base-level categories to get bookmarking with del.icio.us.

Of course, not everyone is going to adopt a new tool as readily. The big question is the one you asked — what is the minimum threshold for interesting network effects to occur? What’s the tipping point?

I don’t think there’s anyone who can say definitively at this point, and in fact, it probably depends profoundly on the context — the type/size of the organization, the number of resources to tag, the complexity of the semantic domain, etc.

That is why a del.icio.us style system absolutely should not be the sole method supporting findability in an information environment. It is another component, along with full-text search and a well-designed taxonomy.

Anyhow, I’d be interested in continuing the discussion with you and anyone else in a mindcamp redux over some beers…

Geoff

Just got back from Seattle Mind Camp 2.0 a little bit ago. That was fun! I don’t think I…

I was sitting next to you in this talk and I made a lot of the same observations you did (though I think you are underestimating the value of RSS in the enterprise, not as a way to create metadata but as an end goal which could obviate metadata. More later…) Anyway, my impression from your comments was that you obviously “get” this stuff and I’d be interested in hearing more about what you had hoped to hear & say at this session!

I’m going to be posting my own thoughts on “delicious inside” as soon as I can get them typed up. I’m hoping we(the whole group, whoever is interested) can continue the conversation without the 45-minute time limit! I’ll ping you to let you know then…

BTW a quick side note: You made a statement during the session comparing CMS and tagged-link environments. At the time we were talking about the “ACLs” problem where people may want to reduce the subset of people who can view a particular item. Although you’re right that basically we’ve always had ways to create repositories of (links/articles/files/whatever) there is definitely something new about tags with regards to permissions. If you think of tags as “virtual folders”, which I believe may be the easiest way to explain them to non-taggers, then the problem becomes more apparent. People tend to want to associate permissions not with individual files, but with the folders that contain them: “this folder is my private stuff, this folder is my project stuff”. When you can have content associated with multiple folders it becomes very hard to give the user a good UI for this. It’s a problem we’ve struggled with through several versions of our product, which is basically a CMS with tagging

Steve